How Your Caregiving Experience IS Business Training (Stop Undervaluing It) | Julie Cole

If you're a woman in business feeling like your personal responsibilities pull you away from entrepreneurial success or that your real-life skills that you've experienced or accumulated over time do not translate to the bottom line or to your corporate ladder, then this episode is for you. I'm joined by Julie Cole, lawyer turned label maker, entrepreneur, and mom of six who reveals how the skills honed in caregiving are not just transferable but actually foundational to building a successful business. We challenge the idea that your business must be separate from your life experience. Listen for how caregiving develops critical skills while integrating your life and business creates better company culture as Julie shares from her company and how to stop undervaluing your unique path. So stay tuned. Are you tired of hearing business advice that completely ignores what real life looks like when you're navigating chronic illness, autoimmune disorders, flare-ups, medical appointments, and just life life-ing? Business with Chronic Illness is for entrepreneurs who know they're capable of building something meaningful, but need a way to do it that actually works with their body, not against it. This podcast brings you honest conversations with founders, CEOs, and other bosses, sharing their strategies, adaptations, and lessons they've learned while building businesses alongside chronic illness, including what worked, what didn't, and what they wish they had done differently before burnout forced the lesson. I'm your host, Nikita Williams, a globally ranked podcast host and entrepreneur who's built my business while navigating chronic illness and helping others do the same without sacrificing themselves. I created this show to open up the conversations most business spaces avoid. The promise of Business with Chronic Illness is simple: to show you that you can build a thriving business with chronic illness and autoimmune disorders without sacrificing your health, your peace, or your profit. You're not behind, you're building differently, and you're in the right place. I am super excited to have Julie on the show. We are going to be talking about a very important topic, which is caregiving. Caregiving and what does that look like as an entrepreneur, as a mom, as a, as a wife, as a person, and you're taking care of somebody else. So Julie, I know you have so much experience in this. I know this is part of your own personal story. Please share with us, where does this look like for you? Where did this caregiving aspect of approaching business come into your life?

Yeah. So it's interesting, you know? Like, you think often women particularly start businesses for very, you know, different reasons, and often it is lifestyle, and for me, that was the case. And it's like you, you know, needed some more flexibility, and for me, that came as a result of my eldest child being diagnosed with autism. So originally, I joke that I'm a recovered lawyer. Um, so the... So my business, Mabel's Labels, I started it with three... Actually, my sister and two of our friends from college. And Mabel's Labels started for a couple of reasons. One was, like I said, my son was diagnosed. He had only just turned three. The research told me that, you know, if one parent really commits and we do all the early intervention and we work really hard, then one day he might move out of my house, which is my end goal. And, um, so there was that, like, just wanting to be able to provide for him, advocate for him- Yeah get him to his sessions, all that sort of thing. And life in the traditional workforce is not necessarily suited for women, moms who want to do that, or any parent for that matter. It just usually does fall on us, let's face it. So true. That's just facts. So that's when, you know, I went to the gals. I said, "Look, we've had this really good idea for a business, and, you know, Mac just got diagnosed. One was on a mat leave." Like, everybody was kind of all over the place, and we're like, "Well, let's just do it." So we started doing our research and development. So it really was the two things, you know, the, the lifestyle and having a good i- idea and bringing, bringing that together. So, um, yeah, it was the flexibility I was looking for. And also, you know, he is my eldest child. He had only just turned three. He already had two younger siblings. I have six kids. So it was a very busy household As it was with or without autism.

Wow. I mean, all of those things add texture to business advice. I think it adds a filter to what decisions you decide to make, who you decide to work with, and I know a big part of your story is community, support, building founders. How did that shape the way that you structured your business?

Yeah. I think for us, like, it was pretty unique having four co-founders. And for anyone out there who has a business and maybe has one partner, you're probably going, "What?" "Is that like... That is craziness having four." Because of course you have lots of ideas and lots of opinions and lots of feisty conversations, but you also have four different brains-

Mm

four different skill sets. You have division of labor, so, you know, I didn't have to do it all. Mm. You know, one person could be like, "Okay, I'm gonna research this machinery, and I'm gonna talk to the bank, and I'm gonna do..." So we could really divide and conquer, and also that we were able to provide each other... Because especially 20, almost 23 years ago when we started, long before podcasts and social media, the entrepreneurship grind was very lonely. Mm. So, and I saw this with my solo entrepreneur friends, particularly in the mom entrepreneur space. You know, they're working out of their basements or their garage or on a laptop somewhere, and it can be a lonely, it can be a lonely space. So for the four of us as well, we were able to provide each other with support. We were able to divide risk financially by us all contributing, which felt a little more comfortable as well. But also the fact that this was, like, my sister- Mm and our two friends who actually ended up marrying my brother, and I have a young uncle, so we were all family. Oh. So they also were aligned with- Mm wanting the best for my son, right? Yeah. And wanting the best outcome, so understanding the reason I made, you know, the leap from traditional workforce to entrepreneurship. And, uh, like you say, like built, it was like a built-in community- Mm when back in those days, there were no online communities. There might be, like, awkward in-person events sometimes- like with your local chamber of commerce. But again, that stuff was very hard because, you know, when you're raising a, a young family, getting out to go to do that sort of thing can be, can be really tough. So it was like, you know, building our own community and then, of course, like, that just, you know, women founders, we just, you know, kept building community. We ended up with a huge, like, you know, online presence and, you know, I, I was a mom blogger from the way back days and a huge, you know, following on social media when, once that hit. So we just brought that community from the four of us to the entire company, and it just became our company culture.

I love hearing that because I think- Often, you know, I started my business back in 2017 online, and we did have social media. We did have Facebook. We did... We didn't have Instagram yet, but we did have Facebook, and so there was this kind of built-in ability to connect with people in different ways that you weren't used to. But I think even still today when I talk to women, there's resistance around having that support system. I wonder for you what felt like, if there was anything, what felt like the hardest thing to kind of- Yeah figure that aspect out in being a mom, taking care of this new situation that you're still trying to figure out, it's very new, and then bringing in other people and their situations, even though they're family. What felt like the hardest thing?

Yeah, I think, you know, for a lo- there's a, there's a few things at play, I think, in those early days of entrepreneurship. And, and I, I'll say this as a warning for those who are like, "Oh, I've got a great idea." I, I do think entre- and I'm sure you can attest to this, entrepreneurship tends to get romanticized a bit. Ugh, yes. And, you know, everyone thinks it's gonna be like TED Talks and getting invited on your podcast and, and book, you know, speaking events and stuff like that. But, uh, you know what? I, I have to say, I do a lot of that now, but back in the day, it was a lot of, you know, putting the kids to bed, going to my sister's basement, making labels till 2:00 AM, getting up at 6:00 AM with the kids and doing it all again. So the... it was, you know, it wasn't like, you know, putting the kids to bed, grabbing a glass of wine, hopping on Netflix and chilling out. Like, you know, it was a real struggle, so you had to manage your own expectations. And then I think also if you have a f- a family like a spouse or, you know, children, you have to manage theirs too, 'cause they need to understand, look, we might not be going on holidays. Like this is feast or famine, right? Mm. Like, this is... We might not get the new car. We ha- we'll have to make decisions around our new situation. So I do think before anyone goes into this, one of the hard things can be is actually knowing what entrepreneur looks like. Mm. And it doesn't look like what a lot of people think it looks like. It is not glamorous. And, you know, that financial piece too, like you really have to know your finances. Mm. You gotta know what you're going into. You gotta know where you're getting the money from. How are you gonna budget this? How is it gonna make sense? Can you do it? Do you have the capacity? Do you have a business plan? Can you work together? I do think you made a good point that sometimes asking for help is hard and, you know, we don't wanna do these things, but I actually think women are better at this. And I think for me, having that partnership group, we were just like, "Who cares? We don't care if we look dumb. I'll ask anything." And I've said this to my kid, "Nos are free. Just ask- Mm 'cause the worst that's gonna happen is they'll say no." So, you know, we all, we used our networks. We made sure, you know, we know somebody in CPG. We know a IT nerd who can make us a website. Mm. We know... Like, we do know these people, so go out and ask. So I, I think those early challenges really are about, like, understanding the lifestyle change- Mm understanding, you know, the, the economics of it, the how are you gonna finance it, how are you gonna plan it, and how are you gonna fulfill it too. Because I... Another thing I do find with entrepreneurs- Is, you know, we're really great at the early stuff, you know? Mm. But then our ADD kicks in. Because it's huge in the entrepreneurship community, so then the follow-through and the process. So we like that early scrappy startup stuff. Soon as we've got spreadsheets around us, not so much. Mm-hmm. So, you know, if you don't have that, if you're not great at process, you're not great at following through, make sure you hire somebody or partner with somebody who has skills that you don't have.

Yeah, and you know, that, you made me think about while you were talking about that in business, I feel like that is the case with caregiving. Like, I feel like you have to do the same thing in the way you care, and I can imagine with your son, you know, there's the... You kind of developed those skills in, in that space that can translate into yours. So what did that look like for you?

I 100% agree with what you just said there. I gotta tell you, like, I was, I was just thinking today, and I do think about this often because, you know, when I, when the business was a startup 23 years ago, so was my family. You know, I had a bunch of little babies.

Yes.

A- and, and now, like, you know, we've gone through that growth, and, like, every time, whether it was with my family, with the children, or with the business, I thought I knew what I was doing, there would be a change. Suddenly, you know, we have eight employees, so we need to, uh, know something about HR. And then suddenly I'm like, "Oh, wait, they're not babies anymore. Now they're in school. Now I know, I gotta know about school-age things and, and look up where they can play ice hockey and things like that." So as soon as you think you know what you're doing, whether it's with your family-

Mm

and your caregiving or your business, it all just... I'm always like, "Just get comfortable being uncomfortable," 'cause as soon as you think you got it, something's gonna change, and you're gonna have to relearn, make new connections, especially with caregiving. I mean, you know, especially, like, your kid ages out of a certain care, and then you're like, "Oh, my gosh, I, I can't have that pediatrician. I can't go to that children's hospital anymore," all of these things. And we get attached. I mean, you know this. You get attached to your people. You get attached to your educators. Like, when my son had to start high school, I'm like, "But, uh, you know, I've worked so hard on these relationships with the educators, and I've invested so much, and now I have to start over, and where do I want him to go, and who's gonna be the best fit?" And it's like research is a full-time job. Oh. Advocacy is a full-time job. And, you know, like, I know my son was getting what he needed because they didn't wanna see this ugly mug walking in the office every day saying, "Why isn't he getting what he- he's entitled to 'cause here's the Education Act-" Mm "and this is what..." You know, like, also a lawyer mom, right? Yes. So I was

like, and also, I was like, also- Yeah yeah, she's a lawyer, so she knows what

she's talking about.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And that's it. But it is, like, uh, like, to do the research to know how to advocate- Mm-hmm and to take the time to be able to go to all the school meetings, all the appointments, that's the flexibility and the thing with caregiving that you need.

Yeah. It is so amazing that we don't realize how much those skillsets as women translate to our businesses. I find that a lot of women I speak to often in these conversations, they're like, "You know what? You're right. That does he- that did help me here. That did help me-" Yes "lay this groundwork, think about it a way." And I think I like to bring this aspect out in conversations because there are people listening, there are women listening that are li- hesitant because they feel like they don't have that corporate background, or if they do, they don't have it in the way that they wish they had. But the very aspects of what you're doing at home and what you have done to support your community, your people, are the skillsets that I believe, especially even more so as we go into AI and everything that's coming in the world, that is actually the things that are gonna mean the most important thing ever.

100%.

You know?

100%. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think also, because, you know, I did for that hot minute go, "Oh God, why did I put myself through law school- and do articles and do this? And it was so hard, and wah, wah, wah. And now all I do is make labels and change diapers." But I gotta tell you, like, we have to remember that. And I mean, that's why I say recovered lawyer. It's kind of tongue in cheek, right? Like, you know, because why I say that is because we don't know where the path is gonna take us. Mm. We don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know if we're gonna get a chronic illness. We don't know if we're gonna have a child with, you know, who, who's neurodivergent. We don't know if... We don't know. There's no crystal ball. And all of the things, you know, that bring us to that windy path are not for naught. They're important. Everything I learned at law school, I could bring negotiating with these six kids, and also, you know, to my business. So I always say, like, don't feel like you've wasted... Like I, I even say to my kids, I've got five in college right now. Buy more labels, everyone. Like, th- I, like, 'cause they worry about what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do, right? What am I gonna be when I grow up? I'm like, jobs when you get out of college are gonna be completely different. Did anyone know what AI was when I was studying law? No. Did anyone know what, like, a community manager was or, like, a, you know, a social media manager was when I, when people were studying marketing 20 years ago? No. I'm like, just study what you like, learn, and take those skills, and they'll be transferable. So don't ever regret the path, even if you land at that, at that windy one you weren't expecting.

So true. So I wanna shift us for a minute, because we know that your life affects your business. I personally think this. I think business is personal in every way. I don't care if you are not... If you don't think that, I don't know what's... Anyway.

What life are you living? Not mine.

I'm like every- Not mine aspect of business affects a human or a person or a community, whether we want to, like, realize that or not. And so in what ways have that personal aspect of your business really shaped the relationships, the partnerships, the, the technology, the, the things you are choosing to use in your business, and how does that really work? Like, people feel like you cannot be personal in your business. It just has to be business business. What does that look like for you?

Oh my gosh, I have so much to say about this. I mean, I'm with you, business is personal. Like to me, b- my, like Mabel's Labels is a, is a lifestyle. Like right now- Mm-hmm it's actually a holiday where I am. But I mean, I'm like, if I can hop on a podcast with you, I'm going to. Like this is... But then maybe tomorrow, like I don't plan on going to the office. Right. Whatever. Yeah. You know? Like we, it's a, it's a lifestyle and I think, you know, for us, one of the beautiful things about starting your own company is that you can also start a culture.

Mm.

A company culture that you like. And we knew when we started this company that we could work at weird times and in weird places and be highly productive. Mm. So we built a company around that. No parent at our work has to like pretend they're sick because they wanna go to watch their kid in a Christmas play. Go, tell us about it. Mm-hmm. Like, nobody minimizes their Facebook. Like, just as long as you're getting your work done, we don't care. Uh-huh. You know? Just we put productivity above everything else, and not presenteeism. Mm. And I think, you know, the way that kind of innovation has been brought to our products, you know, creating a new product, has also been brought to our workplace. Mm-hmm. So we have a very happy workplace. Mm-hmm. We have... And when people are happy at work, and you give them flexibility, and they just focus on their productivity, I feel like they're also very entrepreneurial. Mm. Which means they feel like they have skin in the game. They are also, for even like, especially the tech people, if you give them, if you bake in time for them to play around in their tech worlds- Mm-hmm then your business inevitably does better, 'cause they figure out a better way of doing something, or they make a contact that can help with this system or whatever. Yeah. And it's really important, A, to keep them happy, and, and B, it's, it's good for your business. So I think by, you know, having a really innovative products and having a really innovative workplace based on- You know, business is personal. Mm-hmm. And valuing relationships and baking that right into our core values, and core values that aren't just, like, hanging on a wall. Like, we interview by them, hire and fire by them. These are the things. So that's why we just, you know, from a business perspective, we don't have, um, we don't have a lot of turnover. Mm. People like, you know, like working with Mabel's, and it, it's, it's just a lot of fun in it's a very special place. And everyone's valued. And the other thing that's really important too is that, you know, having a child on spectrum, we do a lot of neurodivergent, uh, hires. Oh. So, like, a lot of our su- summer students are neuro-spicy, and they do a great job, and we try to be inclusive in all the ways. Mm-hmm. So, um, I think when you bring that kind of leadership, and I, I think women often do bring that kind of leadership. Yes. We know women leaders and women entrepreneurs are more philanthropic. They have more inclusive workplaces. There's a higher level of work satisfaction in the workplace when there are women leaders, and that's not for no reason.

And it is so true because we understand the complexity of living, right? We are s- cyclic kind of people. We have ups and downs. We have great days. We have bad days. We have kids that have those days. We have family. We have parents that we're taking care of. There's all of these complexities in the way that we have to just show up in our own lives. And so for us to build businesses as if those things don't exist is kind of just masculine.

Yeah, exactly. You know, like- Right? It's, it's- it's exactly what it is, and you gotta remember, like, this w- this traditional workforce that we left because it kinda pushed us out. Mm-hmm. It's because it was built around men working during the day. Well, they had a full-time human adult at home taking care of all of the things- Yeah right? And it doesn't suit families today. And because of the care gap in that women are doing most of the caregiving, we are the default parent. We do carry the invisible load. And even for women who are non-parents, we still see that care gap. They're taking care of the pets. They're taking care of the neighbor. They're taking care of elderly parents. They're taking care of their nieces and nephews, their best f- their godchild, whatever. We still see that care gap for women who are not parents. Yes. So, a- and it's funny too, like, when you mentioned, you know, elderly, I even feel like, okay, wow, now my kids are like, oh, I can take a breath. A f- like, a lot of them are at college, and they're very independent. So then what happens when your kids are that age? Your parents are elderly- Yes when your kids are that age, and they, you just go from one kind of caregiving to another. Yes. So it's like we don't ever get a break- Yeah until that time comes when our kids are taking care of us.

Yeah. To that point, though- What have you, Julie, h- found to fi- and there's a, there's so much talk around the world right now about work/life balance and harmony and work/life. That's not a thing specifically within, like, bigger corporations and companies. I have my own feelings about it, but I'd be curious to hear about, like, what type of business decisions have you directly had to make differently because of the type of caregiving you are giving to your family, to yourself, that's probably, you know, I don't know, somebody on, you know, some place that's looking in going like, "That is a bad business decision," has proved to be a good decision for you and for your business?

Well, we know it has because we, you know, we for many years did a results-only work environment, and we still philosophically do that. Mm. And so it's good for the business as far as, like I said, like retention. It's been good for my family because of the flexibility. Certainly, you know, there's been lots that's been given up from, like, a pre-Mabel's, but I mean, it can't be argued. Mabel's Labels is wildly successful. You know? Like, we do millions and millions a year in, in business, so you can't fight the bottom line on this. So you know, uh, for a few moms who started a, a label company in a basement, we showed that this is, this is workable if you do it smart, if you plan, if you, you know, do it your way. You don't have to do it like the guys. You do it your way.

Yeah.

And we've shown you that you can. But there's a real problem because a lot of women, I feel like even for me, being able to leave law-

Mm

and start a business came from a place of privilege.

Uh-huh.

You know? I was able to do that. I mean, it was tough-

Uh-huh

but I was able to do it. And you know, we don't talk about the privilege of being raised by parents who self-regulate and, and tell you you're smart and encourage you to be educated. And so, I mean, I had so much going for me. I wasn't that brave. I never thought I couldn't do things. Oh. So you know, there's a lot of privilege in entrepreneurship that people also don't realize. I mean, you think about, like, you know, the Kardashians making lipstick. Well, everyone's gonna buy it 'cause everyone knows their name- Yeah and they have the money to invest in it. Uh-huh. Right? So wealth creates wealth. We know that. Mm-hmm. Right? So I think, you know, that's, um, that's just, just kind of, kind of the reality of it. But we know for women, the number of female-owned companies that make over $100,000 a year in sales is less than 2%. Mm-hmm The amount of funding-

Oh

women startups receive from VC is less than 2%. Uh-huh. And when you go to sell your company, women are leaving a lot of money on the table. Mm. Women are not getting in their exits what the men are getting. So we're seeing this systemic thing that happens, which means we're not getting the funding, which means we don't grow our companies, which means we can't sell our companies for the big numbers. So we see that this is just a cycle that's repeating. So we need to, like, enough of the fluff. We need, like, men, VCs investing in our companies. Where we're getting money now is, like, when a woman sells her company for a bazillion dollars, she's, you know, giving money to women startups. So we need more of that in the pipeline. We need to make, you know, a, a, a, a have in the boardrooms, like, "Don't interrupt me," or, "She was speaking." Mm. Or, "Actually, don't hijack her idea." There are all these micro-feminisms that we need to bring to the workforce. And as, like, somebody who starts a business and provides an en- you know, creates an environment like that, it's, it's quite nice.

Oh, I love how you just said, "Quite nice." It's

quite nice.

So Julie, when we pull back the camera a little bit for you, if you were to go back, i- and this, very rarely do I get to talk to so many, like, to a person that's started a business way before what we see in the social space now, right? A lot of the... Even now, I feel like just the fact of social media, there's a lot of privilege in the fact that we can literally start a business tomorrow if you don't have one, and have, you know, 500 people find you, and it's so much easier than years before the life that we live now. However, with that speed, with that, you know, expectation, and you've talked about this throughout the episode about putting some real grounded thoughts around how you show up and build whatever you're building, or continue to build whatever you're building. How have you maintained, and I don't even wanna get to that p- part first. I wanna know the nitty-gritty for you as a bu- Business owner, founder, uh, just an amplifier of what you've created. Say to a woman who isn't with that privilege, who isn't necessarily around for people that can potentially become their founders- Right co-founders or have that income, or they are in a corporate environment and they're not sure how to transition into that, and they are taking care of, you know, someone with chronic illness or neurodivergent spicy or elderly parents. What are the things that you feel like they need to focus and simplify on to give them the, the roadway, give them the roadway to build something? Right.

Well, I think it's interesting. Like, I think, you know, a lot of women do have kind of their side hustles, and we saw through COVID women having these side hustles more and more. And I had to laugh because I just... A friend just posted about, there was this panel about women and side hustles, and they didn't have a single Black woman on the panel, and it was like Black women are the queens of the side hustle. Mm-hmm. And no representation there. During Black History Month- Yeah it was like, what is going on? Because the c- contributions that are made in that space, and because, I mean, that grind that like, "I've gotta do this. I've got a dream. I'm going to d-," you know, and being, doing all of the things, right? Mm-hmm. Having always done all of the things. Mm-hmm. So I think, you know, there's, there's the, um... Oh, now of course, I forget what you, you had asked me. What did you ask me?

So what I was asking is, like, what, what are... Someone who's trying to start right now, main-

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Okay Okay. Yeah, what do they need? So I mean, yeah, I think you need to think about things like, what is my actual capacity? Mm. You know, what, what do I actually have capacity for? Because people from- to me were always like, "Well, Julie, how do you do it? Like, I wanna have six kids and I wanna start a business." I'm like, "No, you don't." Like, y- yeah. Like, they'll be like, "Where do you get me time?" I'm like, "If you want me time, this is not the gig for you. Like, if you like going to the salon, if you like to go for, like, a little leisurely walk or have a girls' wine night, do not have six kids and start a business." So it's not, you know, it, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. So I think really understanding, you know, what your capacity is. I think, you know, you can busily work away at things. If you think this is the time, you know, you're working away at things, it is... I mean, it's easier in some ways, 'cause like you said, like, back in the day, I mean, social media was awesome when it came, because our product is very word-of-mouth, word-of-mom. Moms talk about products we love- Yes like it's our full-time job, right? So they were talking about Mabel's Labels at, like, daycare drop-offs and stuff. But when social media hit, man, those mommy bloggers and Facebook moms went to town talking about our product, and it really leveled the playing field. Mm. To your point, like, all of a sudden, I'm like, I can, I have access to the producer at the Today Show. Mm. I have access to the editor of the Parents Magazine, right? And you could just join in conversations there. And now, um, that's all there, and I agree. Like, the startup, the barrier to entry now, like I was at a, a conference, Econ North, and these young ones were, young people were talking about their business ideas and what they'd created in, like, a couple of days, and I'm like, in the old days, that would've taken me eight months to create. But because there's AI tools and because of a lot of other things going on, but then you also have that economy of, like, a lot of people are doing it. Yes. There's a lot of noise. So I think the important thing to do is to make sure, and this is how we've kept our spark after all these years and why we're such a, such a loved family brand, is that we're relatable. We're just like every other mom. We're visible. You know, you gotta get out there. You gotta keep turning up. Show up, because visibility creates credibility, which creates loyalty, and that is where your customers are going to keep coming back- Mm and that's what you want. So I think, you know, for that woman who's thinking about it, think about capacity. Think about what you can do quietly on the sidelines, and then when you're ready to go, you get out there, you use every contact you have, and start turning up.

Yes. Yes. I love that, and I love that you started off with capacity. Not a lot of business strategy things, conversations we talk about is, that's not the first conversation we hear. We often hear, you know- Is it something that people want? That's important. Yes. Is it something that's, you know, something that you can be behind and you enjoy? That's important. But if you don't have the capacity for either of those things, it's not gonna work.

Right. It's not gonna work, and if your family doesn't understand what that's gonna look like, and the thing is, when we're talking from a caregiving perspective or a chronic illness perspective or dealing with the other things that other people aren't dealing with, you know, our capacity is a little impa- impacted a little differently- Yes to, you know, that young 30-year-old man who has no family and just is like, "Yay, let's go, bro," right? Right. Like, it's different when you're in that caregiving capacity.

Yeah, caregiving defines our success and our path differently. It changes, like, how we view our personality, how we view our, uh, our, our, our, like, our profession. Like, what we're going to do, it changes that, and I think we have to bring some, like, normalcy to that. I feel like there's a lot of shame and there's a lot of judgment in this space at times around w- that looking different. I wonder how have you- Mm-hmm seen that kind of morph more into... I don't know. Is it a more positive mainstream conversation now that you see, or that... or do you feel like we have- Right less conversation about that now?

I, I think that we're getting more conversation about it, because as we have more women sort of leaders or willing, you know, to be unapologetic about, you know, we have, you know, women doing self-advocacy around, you know, stuff that they're dealing with. Even it's interesting now that I'm, like, just in that, you know, menopause space. Suddenly I'm like, "Oh, yeah, this generation of women, we're not taking that gaslighting that the doctors have been feeding us- Mm-hmm about, you know, how we can't have hormones." I'm like, "Give me the estrogen." And so we'll advocate. We... You know, we know, yeah, we, we won't be gaslit, and I see that in a, in a lot of ways. These conversations are coming out more, and then we, as we have, like, women who are kind of leading with, you know, no shame in my game, and building companies that also create space for caregiving and honoring it, and they're not being shamed around it. So it's not like that old boys club. We also see... You know, 'cause we also see the pay gap. You know, women leaders make less than 80% of what male leaders. Mm-hmm. We know when... You know, even government representation, there's so... Like, we're just not there, so we need to keep pushing forward, turning up in those spaces. And I always say, like, "I walk through that door, and I'm holding it open for the woman right behind me- Mm and I'm pulling you through." Mm-hmm. And we need that from kind of, like, the next elders who can, like, lead by example and raise each other up.

Yeah, so true. I, I wanna get a little granular. I cannot talk today on this for a second- I like to talk in threes about, like, what are we actually doing to create that space for someone who is behind us and is in a room. I, I, I've heard this, um, before where it's like, you know, say their names in the rooms that you're not in. But how do you say those names? How do you get to know those people? How do you encourage, you know, those that are, you know, who over here grinding it out, hustling out, whatever it is that they're doing, caregiving, taking care, living with chronic illness themselves, without, like, exasperating their issues? How have you found some tools or ways of doing that?

Yeah, I think also now with tech, you know, people are more accessible. So I know, like, for me, I do a lot of mentoring. Mm-hmm. Um, and also honestly saying names in rooms and being like, "I have got somebody you need to have on your podcast, and I actually already have three people I need you to have on your podcast." And like, you know, and keeping people front of mind and doing things like liking their posts. You- there's so many ways just to encourage to say kind words, to give them a tip off, to share their post on LinkedIn, anything, just to kind of keep, you know, raising them up. And yeah, and the mentoring. And, and paying them. Like, businesses, I... International Women's Day is coming up. I do a lot of speaking International Women's Day. I'm like, you know what? This is not a time for our male allies to be talking. Pass us the mic. We got the one day. Let us all do the talking. You know? So, you know, I won't go to events and speak at events when they have, oh, we also have males speaking as allies. I'm like, "No." And you know what? If you have a budget for A buffet, you have a budget to pay me. Mm, mm. So make sure, you know, that all- women are getting paid. How many freebies are you asked for, right? Mm-hmm. Like consulting or speaking or whatever, and they'll be like, "Well, I'll promote you." I- women don't need more inspiration and fluff or pr- promotion. We need money. Mm. So pay us. Mm. Pay us the money, right? Say that

again for the people in the

back. Yeah. You got that

right. Yes, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of different levels to that conversation alone, but I, uh, really appreciate you sh- saying that because I do think even if you are not in the room that you think you wanna be in, still say people's names in the rooms that you currently are in. And you never- Yeah know where that might lead. You never know how that may help the person behind you, beside you, in front of you, whatever. I definitely believe that is a, a huge part of it, and so.

For sure. And, like, another easy win is, like, supporting women-owned businesses. My lawyer, a woman. My photographer, a woman. You know, my baker, a woman.

Mm-hmm.

I don't bake cakes. I have six kids. I do not bake cakes. I'll make the labels. You bake the cakes. Let's everybody do what we're good at- and pay each other to do it. I

love that. So if you were to go back in time to Julie you and be like, "Okay, I'm doing this again" as a, as a mom, as a caregiver, as, as, as a new aspiring entrepreneur, what advice would you give way back Julie?

To way back Julie? You know what? Not a lot. I'd be like, "You know what? Just make sure you keep an open mind. Y- you got the right attitude. You'll be fine. The kids are all right. You're not saving lives here. You're making labels. The kids, you know, you don't need to track them all the time. They're gonna come home. Like, it's fine. It's fine." You know, I just think we make such a big deal out of everything, so I think I'm okay. I think maybe one thing I would've done differently is I probably would've got help sooner.

Mm.

And I would advise, like, no sh- and I do think women get caught in this cycle of like, well, you know, I know for me it was like, well, I left the traditional workforce so I could be with my kids and do my business, so why would I get help with my kids so I could do my business? You know, it just... But that's ridiculous. So eventually I got a nanny when my fifth kid turned one, and that was three kids, Julie. So get the help. Have somebody clean your frigging house, people. Mm-hmm. Okay? I don't, I know, whatever, it's expensive, but whenever, once every two weeks I always say, "If it's too expensive, feed your kids more Kraft dinner."

I love that. It's so- That's a great piece of advice. I think so true- Get help to the fact of not just in your business do you need help. Even if you don't have kids. I have a good 50 per- 50% in this audience that listens that are moms, caregivers for elders. And then- Yeah there are people who are, like, single. I call them DINK, double income, no kids. And you still need to

Need

some help- You need somebody to clean your house clear your house, because those things are a part of it. Because

it's ch- it's also cheaper than marriage counseling. It

helps keep the things, you know, moving. Yeah. Like, take something off of your plate. Exactly. Yes. You don't

wanna become the Bickersons over, like, countertops.

Seriously. It's not worth it. Life's too short. It's not worth it. Yeah. It's not worth it. Yeah. Well, I so appreciate you spending some time with me today and sharing a bit about what caregiving has led to your business looking like, feeling like, and just how I really truly love how it's kind of shaped how you've built what you've built. And it's okay, and it works, people. I know I've been saying this for, like, 10 years on this podcast, but business is personal, and doing it the way that works for you is never a bad thing. It's

good for business.

It's good for business. So-

Yeah

the last thing I'd like to end off with is, is there something in your business that you thought was true before you started that you now believe was a whole bunch of hogwash? Like, it was, like,

a lie. Ooh, that's a good question. Hmm. I don't think so. I mean, I think for me, it was so long ago, I don't even know what I was thinking. You know? Like, I was so sleep-deprived. My kid had just been diagnosed. I, like, literally didn't sleep for 10 years with all those babies, right? So I don't really know what I thought. I think, I think I thought, like, "Oh, well, we'll see how we go with this," you know? Like, but then everything that we did was to make it a big success. Oh. Like, we took minutes our very first meeting. Yeah. We did a business plan. We talked to the right people. So it wasn't just, like, this little thing. Mm. So try not to maybe think small. Ooh. Think big. But the other thing, too, is that you've gotta remember that it's really important to let go of some stuff. Mm. You know, I don't know how to make a label. I haven't made a label in 10 years, and I shouldn't know how to make a label. 'Cause if I was still in the basement making labels, that would be a big problem. Sometimes quitting could be for winners. If it's not working, if it's not happening, you gotta know, I know, like, don't cling to a mistake 'cause you spent a long time making it. Mm. Sometimes you also need to know when it's time to wrap it up, take all the lessons from that, and move it to your next project.

Mm. Mic drop. Love that question. I love the answers I get at the end. Okay, I love that. Thank you so much. This was, this was great. This was great, great, great.

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

That's a wrap for this episode of Business with Chronic Illness. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review. It helps more entrepreneurs living with chronic illness and autoimmune disorders find these conversations. You can check the show notes for links, resources, and ways to stay connected. And if you have a question or story you'd like to share, visit craftedtothrive.com to leave a voice message for the podcast. I'd love to hear from you. Until next time, remember, you can build a thriving business without sacrificing your health, your peace, or your profit.