How to Spot Business Misalignment Before It Burns You Out | Jason Winters

NIkita Williams00:00:00

What if the reason your business feels so exhausting isn't because you're not working hard enough, but because you're building it completely wrong for your body, your reality. Your reality. Living with chronic illness or going through the different challenges, or even for your future dreams, your future self.Today I'm talking with Jason Winters, an energy alignment coach, about the warning signs that your business is working against your body instead of with it, and why this even matters.If you've been pushing through flare ups over delivering or feeling like you have to choose between your health and your income, this episode will show you there's other ways. There's another way so that you don't lead yourself to burnout.Jason personally shares his experience of rapid business growth, growth that nearly broke him, and the exact framework he used to rebuild around his values and capacity.We'll cover why entrepreneurs with chronic illness are particularly vulnerable to building businesses that drain their energy, and how to spot fear based decisions before they lead you to burnout and practical steps for creating a business that actually supports your well being.By the end of this conversation, you'll have the clear framework for recognizing misalignment early and the tools to build something sustainable that honors both your ambition and your life in reality today, whether that's with chronic illness or even if you're healing from burnout. Now. This is one of my first episodes with a male on the show. Jason has been one of my personal energy alignment coaches.He has been a huge part of of my business and my life and my growth as a coach. So I'm so excited to have him here. I'm so excited that you're here to hear from him.He creates such a safe space of conversation and understanding and acknowledgement and I just am so appreciative for Jason to come onto the show.Being one of the first men, I'm very, very particular about this space, you guys, so I'm glad you get to enjoy a part of what has helped me to become the coach and has helped me to help clients as well as what will help you in your journey to grow your business. So stay tuned.

Jason Winters00:02:22

Most of us who are listening to this podcast understand the neural pathways on some level. Like, we may not know all the details and we're not scientists, but we understand how those brain pathways work.But it's the actual retraining that is the work, that it's not easy, right? That's why those of us who are coaches and those of us who are doing this work are still doing the work.

NIkita Williams00:02:47

Foreign welcome to Business With Chronic Illness, the globally ranked podcast for women living with chronic illness who want to start and grow a business online.I'm your host, Nikita Williams and I went from living a normal life to all of a sudden being in constant pain with no answers to being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses and trying to make a livable income. I faced the challenge of adapting traditional business advice to fit my unique circumstances with chronic illness.Feeling frustrated and more burned out than I already was while managing my chronic illness to becoming an award winning coach with a flexible, sustainable online coaching business, I found the surprisingly simple steps to starting and growing a profitable business without compromising my health or my peace. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do the same.If you're ready to create a thriving business that aligns with your lifestyle and well being, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for women with chronic illness and how we make a living.This is business with chronic illness. It's been a long time coming for me to have this guest on the show because it's been me. It's not been, it's not been our guest. Okay.Because Jason has been like, hey, if you want me to come on, I'm like, jason, I ain't going no man on the show. I ain't got no men on this show. Okay. But you've been a part of my journey for a long time and you have helped me so much.And just the journey of like overcoming some of the stuff we're going to talk about today, like fears and doubts and being okay with shifting and changing and what does that look like? But before we get all into that, please tell us like, how you would describe yourself.

Jason Winters00:04:48

I would say in my bio, I am an energy alignment coach. Just simply put. But I don't know, I don't know.Nikita EFT tapping practitioner it just really depends on what people are wanting or what they're needing.But I think that energy alignment fits because that's really what we're doing, is we're just aligning our own personal energy, whether it's for our business or for our health or for our life or whatever it is. It's just figuring out how to put those pieces together. So I, I would go with that for sure.

NIkita Williams00:05:21

Yeah. And you are. Yeah, that is the thing we, you do. You really do.And it's, it's so fascinating, Jason, how you came to this, like, how did you come to this lane?Like, it's not something that we all naturally think about, you know, we're all in a hurry to think about the tangible things we need to do, how many posts we need to have, how many platforms we need to be on. Like, am I producing enough this or that? How did you land on. Yeah, I need to work on my energy.

Jason Winters00:05:52

Yeah, exactly. And I love that you said that because honestly, Nikita, just like last week, I was in a hurry.So it's not like you get to a place where you're just like, I got it all figured out. And I think that's what.Even if people don't intend to have us believe that it's what we make it to mean when we see people on social media or when we see people. I think it was like last year I even sent you a DM and I was like, nikita, how are you? Like, what's going on?Like, how are you posting so consistently and doing all the things? And it's just like where you have your life aligned. Like, things work for you in that way. And so that's why it's really important.Because for me, that's more of a, like, it became a struggle. So it's like, Jason, why are you struggling in that area? Like, if that's not your thing, you don't have to do that particular thing.And so it was a place of serving me. Like, this is what I needed because I didn't want burnout. I didn't.I know that I am like extremely highly sensitive when it comes to like energy and other people's energy and my own stuff. And so I needed this business to serve me. I needed my life to be able to serve me. So it wasn't just in business, but it was also life.Like, I know that I say all the time your life informs your business, but I saw how that happened. So even outside of business where we're not talking about the people pleasing and trying to do all things for all people, it just doesn't work.And so those things are not separate. Our business doesn't live in a vacuum where we're able to just say, oh, this is how I run my business and this is how I run my life.Like, there's so much bleed over. And so we have to like really check that and come to a place we realize that I am the product. Right, you are the product.So if you're not complete and whole, then things are not going to work well in your business.

NIkita Williams00:07:45

You know, this is, this is a big topic in itself, right? This idea that, you know, I say this all the Time everybody know when you listen to business is personal.Like I like there's a level of personalness that comes into your business because you are, you are part of the business. Like you said, you're not in a vacuum. Separate. And something you mentioned, which is like the energetics or the alignment of where what you.What's going on in your life and how it shows up in your business.How have you found that to be true for you in the sense of either amplifying or I don't want to say, like downplaying or limiting your growth when you didn't operate in that reality? That makes sense.

Jason Winters00:08:37

I love this because it's all right. So I want to say this first of all, is that it's not. It's almost never what we think it is.So when I'm working with clients and they say things like, I already worked through that, or I had years of therapy with that, they thought it was that and now they think it's no longer that because they work through it. So it's literally always a much deeper place, like where it comes from.And in this work, rather recently I've learned the importance of when you're doing this deeper work, it does not mean to like, get a bigger shovel and start digging deeper. It really comes from a place of being more and more curious.And that curiosity is going to lead you to a place where your body will literally feel safe enough to explore and to see those things. Because I'm just thinking right now, many of us grew up feeling like a misfit. Whether it were true or not, it was true for us.So you feel like a misfit. And so most people in school or whoever you grew up around probably felt that same way.So if everyone's feeling like a misfit, are we really a misfit or is this a normal thing that everybody's going through? Right. And so you, you get curious about what's going on.And for me, there was a lot, like emotional eating, emotional spending, binging on things, whether it's social media, doom scrolling and so forth. A lot of the focus for me was on those things, like, oh, how do I stop this? Or how do I stop that? But genuinely, it's the, it's the deeper thing.So I'll give you this quick story. When I was 10, my grandfather murdered my grandmother with a gun. And then he murdered my great grandmother, his mom, and then. Wait a minute.Suicide, Right? Okay, I know.

NIkita Williams00:10:38

Okay, okay.

Jason Winters00:10:41

So that happened. And I was 10 years old. Now, because I've Done so much work around this period of my life.A lot of the trauma that I had came from this experience, but it was before that that it happened. What this experience did was it kind of really sealed in some things and intensified trauma that was kind of already there.So one, one aspect of this. And we had so many people at the house, like friends, people were coming to pray with us, like, and this was in 93.I just got baptized and it was just like my life, like less than a month ago. And so my life was just like turning upside down. This is my grandmother, who I was very close to her.I wasn't super close to my grandfather or my great grandmother. I was very close to my grandmother. So a lot of grief and all of that.But the one thing, the one thing that really stood out in a session like a few weeks ago was that I made this time period because what my family was trying to do was protect me because I was so young. So the news, they were like at the house. That was back when you had the big camcorders and stuff.It wasn't like social media, it wasn't even out at that time. So we didn't open the door for them, but they were like knocking on the door. And I'm a curious 10 year old. I'm like, oh, why are they at the door?Like, we're not letting them in. And then the story, I knew that they died, but I didn't really know the details. And I wanted to know, like, that's a pivotal age. Right.So aside from the grief, aside from all of that, the one aspect that really hit me was the fact that I, and I kind of recently learned this piece, is that I made this mean that I, I wasn't valuable enough to have that conversation with. What my family was trying to do is protect me from knowing too much and being traumatized, I guess.

NIkita Williams00:12:35

Yeah.

Jason Winters00:12:36

But I made this to mean that, wow, like, nobody cared enough to tell me to sit and communicate that with me. Right. And so then that's where your value and it's. This is not about like pity or, oh, poor, you know, poor this kid or whatever.Yeah, it is a very sad story.But when we are trying to show up in our business and we're feeling like I don't personally have a fear of being seen as much of a fear of being truly known.

NIkita Williams00:13:07

Truly.

Jason Winters00:13:08

And so the difference is like, oh, yeah, I'll show up on social media. I don't mind being on video because that's just kind of been who I am.But Truly known is not because I'm used to being in front of people, so being seen. Right. And it's really the same thing. Right. Because I'm showing you with a mask who I want you to see.

NIkita Williams00:13:27

Yeah.

Jason Winters00:13:28

But when you're able to take that off, if you're able to get to that point, then you get to show up in your business as who you really are. It's a lot easier. So that's just one little aspect of doing this energy work. Now I've just seen this.It doesn't mean that now I'm just like, oh, I'm healed. And now I'm able to just show up as who. Who I want to be 100% and to be truly known.It's just that, oh, now I get to be a little more curious about that side or that aspect of the trauma that happened.

NIkita Williams00:14:00

I mean, there's so much there. That's some deep stuff. 1. Okay, I also think. I think you said it so perfectly at the beginning of sharing this.What you think it might be is not often what it actually is.And also the fact that you think you've healed something and you haven't really, like, you know, I have personally experienced that myself, where I'm like, I thought I was worked through that. I thought I went through that. And you in a whole different environment. Environment, space, time of your life. And it's like, no, you didn't.No, you didn't. And I think this is a question I often hear from my clients, which is like, Nikita.And I'm sure you hear this, too, is like, well, if that's the case, to your point, like, now I'm aware of this. Now I know that this contributes to my being authentically who I'm really wanting to be.If I'm always uncovering, always learning all of these things, how can I actually be present and have that quote, unquote, work for my business? Because in my opinion, personally, it's just something that you.You move through, you work with, instead of it being like, the thing that just stops you. Because having identity crisis is never helpful in. In a business. It feels like it doesn't feel helpful. Like, wait a minute. Wait. That's not who I am.Wait, you just want to shut down the business? You know, those are the kind of things that leaves you kind of feeling stuck.So if a person's listening to this and they're like, okay, Jason, you just shared that huge story, but also, you're moving through this. You're still running a business. You're still being curious. How do you actually do both versus just free spawn?

Jason Winters00:15:48

Yeah. So one of the things. And it's not just one thing, and that's what I'm saying. One of is it's the judgment that we put on it.And when you are going through something and you're sharing it with a friend, or you may be sharing something with your husband, or I'm sharing something with my wife, or she's sharing with me, the one thing that's really valuable in not conversation or that interaction is just to. Was for someone to listen to you, to hear you, to acknowledge you, and just kind of be with you. Right. Just.Just a friend or you have someone in that relationship. It's really, really good. Nikita. It is very, very challenging for most people to just do that for themselves.

NIkita Williams00:16:38

Yep.

Jason Winters00:16:38

Right. And so hard.What we do not like or appreciate is when someone's like, okay, yeah, that happened too, you know, and they're, like, telling their story, so they make it about them, or they invalidate your feelings, like, you'll be all right, but you always work through it, you know, so it's somehow they're, like, pushing us aside and not really listening or hearing you. We can feel that, and it doesn't feel good. And it makes us, like, kind of wrap up that conversation. Or, you know, some people respond differently.Like, they may just tell the person, like, I don't appreciate that. But for me, I'm just like, okay, I'm done. I'm gonna wrap up this conversation. Because they're not available.And just where I am, I understand that they're not available, but everybody doesn't, like, see that or understand that.I think that part of this awareness, Nikita, is understanding that about ourselves, the judgment that we put on these things and on our business, it's like a heavy judgment, like, I should be doing this. I should be here. I've been doing this for five years, and I'm still not making X amount of dollars. There's a lot of judgment.And so to your question about doing all the work, that's the part where we're shifting slightly to you being. I don't. I don't want to say comfortable with uncomfortable, because that's, like, overdone. And it's not really what I mean, but it's more of.There's a level of patience and understanding, and there's a. There's a. Your values that are. That are under attack, if I can say that.So when I speak to coaches, majority of them, like, you know, I want to be in alignment. And I want, you know, I want to be in a space where my family is valued first.Like, they have these values, and then their identity is connected to so many things that are not grounded in their values, like how much money they make or how many clients they're having or how quickly their business is growing. And so for me, it is very important that this inner work be the. It's not comfortable.Like, I'm going through some things right now in my business because it's just different levels. So if you think that this is the. Like, once I get past this point, then I like the. Then I. When I. Then I. Thinking it's very disrespectful to the body.Like, it's disrespectful to you.

NIkita Williams00:19:08

And.

Jason Winters00:19:08

And so grounding in your values. I think it's important. And if you have. If you have that, it's very, very helpful because it's not like working over and over again.Then I have one other thing, but I want to give you a chance to respond if that's helpful.

NIkita Williams00:19:25

No, go ahead, because I have a couple of questions. Okay, so go with your next one.

Jason Winters00:19:30

The other thing that may be really helpful for listeners, like, really, really helpful is to be very clear. And I wish I written these questions down, but it could be something like, give me an example of one thing that you're.That, like, your clients may say or like a real issue. So your question was, like, all these things that all the work and all the things.Give me an example of something that somebody like a limiting belief or some fear or something that is real that that comes up for your clients.

NIkita Williams00:20:02

If I change my mind, I'm doing something wrong.If I started doing something and now I'm changing my mind how I want to do it, then that means when I'm starting over and I did something wrong or I failed, that's a. Yeah, okay, good.

Jason Winters00:20:20

So let's go with one. So there's actually a few things in there. And this is really good because we get to see how our brains just run ahead.Like, that's the anxiety where we're just running ahead or catastrophizing or what have you. So let's just stick with one thing. For instance, if I change my mind, then that means that all of what I did was a failure. Okay?So recognizing that thought, or you could call it a belief. So the first thing is we want to just acknowledge that in the moment.So this isn't like, I mean, to me, this is deep work, but this isn't like, you know, eft tapping or breath work or anything. This is, like, right now. Like, I'm gonna take a pause, and I'm gonna take that.If I change my mind, then that means that all of what I did, like that was worthless. I failed. Right? So we're gonna use the other part of our brain to say, well, Nikita, what is the truth? Right? So for your client, what.What could a truth be?

NIkita Williams00:21:31

That's. It depends on who it is. But it's like a truth is. Like, that statement isn't necessarily true, but more or less, everybody changes their mind.Like, that's. Yeah, that's normal.

Jason Winters00:21:43

Yeah. Well, I love the. The. I love that, like, everybody gets to change their mind, right? And I get to change my mind.Like, the truth is I get to change my mind. That is the truth, right? If that's true for you, then that's true for you.And we're not looking to make up something, but we want something that is going to be, like, true for you. So one that comes to my mind is, what is it? If I change my mind, I fail. Oh, you know what? I learned so much from this experience. Okay? So it does not.You're not denying the fact that you feel disappointed or you feel whatever the feeling is or the emotion behind that. When I think this, I feel this. But the truth is, I actually learned so much from that experience. The truth is, I realized after a few months that.Or after a couple years, that my heart really isn't in it anymore as it was when I started. The truth is, I get to change my mind. And so that is.I know it sounds like simple, but that is like, not giving your brain the opportunity to understand, and you're separate.So that's how we're untangling this massive braid of confusion and judgment and all these things, because we're not dismissing the thought, we're not dismissing the feeling. We're just bringing in the truth. And that's the part that we. We kind of use as a throwaway, and we say things like, well, I know.I know that I learned a lot, but. No, no, we want. Just like you had that thought stand out. I feel like a failure, full stop. Right? I feel disappointed in myself, full stop.The truth is. Full stop. So we need the brain to get all of those pieces. And that. That's really, really helpful.

NIkita Williams00:23:41

How is that helpful, Jason?Because to your point, I think when I was doing some more research, when I was in the eft, the thing that I remember, and I still remember, I learned this in aromatherapy. I learned this in coaching, that our brain naturally just takes the negative outweighs any positive. It's.I mean, even in psychology, things that I've learned and read, like, we will completely disassociate from the truth. Like, we will. I'll give you an example. People who are like, that doesn't happen.My husband recently, he had given a talk and like a public talk out in front of people, and someone had said to him, that was really good. Like, I really enjoyed the part. And so later on, later on I was telling him, hey, yeah, that was really good. Even. So and so said, that was good.And he's like, nobody said that to me. And I was like, I was standing right next to you when this person, like a whole, like, wasn't just like a blip.It was a whole conversation of how much they enjoyed your conversation, your talk. And he's like, I don't even remember that. And that's literally our brain just throwing away.It's like another illustration of you saying, like, yeah, you believe all these negative things or negative or not, maybe they are how you feel, they are how you perceive right now, but there's also a truth that you're missing, which was, for example, with my husband, you did a great job, and you've just dismissed that. And so to your point, when we're doing this work on ourselves, it is so easy for us to just be like, I am horrible. I failed.I this, I that, and not sit with the other aspect of that of. I also learned a lot.So how does someone start that practice of engaging with that truth as much as we engage with those negative or not even negative? I don't even like calling them negative because they're just feelings and their thoughts and that's what they are, Right?

Jason Winters00:25:35

Absolutely. So you said it. Basically, that's. That's what we do, is we recognize like, that the brain is looking for the familiarity, which, honestly, it is.It is negative in a sense that it's looking to keep you safe. So it's looking for danger. Is looking for danger. So in the example of your husband, I can really relate to that.A part of it could be that he ignored what the people said. Another part is what helps us to remain safe is confirming what we can expect. So we know confirmation bias, right?If I am biased in a certain direction, then everything's going to confirm that for me. Even if it's not confirmed really happening that way, I'm gonna be like, oh, yeah, see, nobody liked it, right?Because we need we need that, but that starts from us. And so we're. If you have someone walking in a circle and everybody's walking in that same circle, it's going to be like a well worn path, right?And we know this. We already know this, right? Most of us who are listening to this podcast understand the neural pathways on some level.Like, we may not know all the details, and we're not scientists, but we understand how those brain pathways work. But it's the actual retraining that is the work, that it's not easy. Right.That's why those of us who are coaches and those of us who are doing this work are still doing the work.If we never get the flag at the top of the hill, like, we're still going through this jungle, but we're creating a path where you think of, okay, we've been going in the same circle, now we're actually going through the jungle. So I'm going to need some scissors to start snipping some things away. Like, you can't just go in with a lawnmower into the jungle.It just doesn't work that way. Like, you're going to need different tools and patience.And if you are valuable enough or if you don't feel like you're valuable enough, that's fine, too. It is your responsibility to do this work for yourself now. It is your load to carry. No one else can do this for you, right? No one else can.It is your responsibility and you are going to lean into. Why am I doing this?For me first, a lot of us are like, well, I love people and I want to help people, but if you're in this particular struggle, then your personal value and your deserve level has to be raised.And so that's why I feel like this truth work with tapping or breathwork or aromatherapy or whatever you're recommending is very important because you need to see the truth and know that it's the truth so that you have something to kind of bend back to. Like, think this, I feel this, but I know this, right? You're. You're having that and the brain is going to work it. Like, it can't not work.

NIkita Williams00:28:40

Yeah, it is really interesting when I think about this because we, we started this off with, how does this affect our businesses? How does this affect how we're showing up? And there are. I'm gonna play a little bit of devil's advocate here.There are a lot of people specifically and depending on, like, where they are, but a lot of people feel like, oh, this is Just woo, woo, woo. Like, this is just. Woo. Like, this is just, you know, we just need to hustle through this. We just need to do the. If your business isn't working is.Isn't because your energetics aren't aligned. Like, you know, there's all of these things. Like, there's other reasons why your business isn't working.

Jason Winters00:29:21

Yeah.

NIkita Williams00:29:22

For a person who is not sold or not in the space of believing that the energetics are a part of this or that they're even important to this conversation about business, life, whatever. Right.

Jason Winters00:29:35

Yeah.

NIkita Williams00:29:35

What would you tell this person right now?

Jason Winters00:29:38

I would. And this is not. Like, this is with the most love. If what you're doing is working, then continue that. Like, continue that.If you are comfortable with pushing through your flare ups and ignoring your body and doing the hustle. I don't really think that Nikita space is really, like, I don't really think.But you cannot put, like, you cannot build a strategy on top of a weak foundation. And I think that we as humans, like, we gotta respect the body, the brain, the person.And if you're not down for that, then I would say continue doing what you're doing if that's working for you. Like, I don't mean like, no.Like, at a point you will get there where you're just like, I can't anymore, and then come back and we'll have a conversation. But I would not. I would. Here's why I would not convince people, because they need to be able to trust themselves.And when we get in the business of convincing, then they don't trust themselves. And sometimes it takes a little bit of a different journey for them to see, like, okay, maybe this doesn't work, but that's what I would say.It's just like, really? That's one thing.But if you're kind of curious about it and you genuinely, like, you're not against it, but you're just, like, really not seeing it, then I would just say explore your own feelings and emotions and the reason why you're doing what you're doing. And are you, you know, ask yourself the question of, like, why am I doing this? Who am I doing this for? Like, how are you valuing yourself?And we know that, like, are you taking care of your health? Are you taking care of your mind? Are you taking care of your body? Are you, Are your relationships okay? Are you finding yourself arguing all the time?Is your business the center of something? Something that's not all clear and good? You know, it's like you're going to know. You're going to know if you're in alignment.You're going to know if you have harmony. You will know if you're willing to check in, if you are ignoring these things. And there's this fear that comes up that, oh, I don't.I can't slow down. Like, I have to, you know, I gotta. I gotta keep it moving. Then that's. That's your sign.Like, that's communicating to you that there's something else that you wanna consider.

NIkita Williams00:32:15

Love that answer, Jason. That was perfect. And it's true.It's like, you know, I'll tell this story too, where, you know, at one point when I was working with you, Jason, there was this aspect of me, like, hey, I want to, like, really lean into doing the podcast. I want it to be the full thing. And I remember being so excited, and I remember, like, y', all, this is. This might be it. Nikita is all in it.And there was something. I had received coaching, and this is. This is not to fault the coach.

Jason Winters00:32:45

Right.

NIkita Williams00:32:46

Okay, y', all, like.And it wasn't Jason who was the coach who said this, but it was another coach who said something to me that just played into the fears I had and the doubts I had that put that, like, in the corner. Right? Until one day I was like, what? To your point? I convinced myself that's crazy.That is crazy that I just put that over here and did not want to lean into this space because it's different, because it's changing, but it's like, it's really not different. It's really not that crazy. Right. But I had to convince myself, did I go a long way around the corner to figure that out? Absolutely.But nobody else could have told me that. Nobody else. Right.Like, Jason was probably the one who told me, Nikita, I don't know about that, but if this is where you feel like you want to put it down, go ahead. Like, what are you gonna do?

Jason Winters00:33:45

Yeah.

NIkita Williams00:33:45

And I think it's important to remember in our own journey, sometimes we will take the long. The long route. Like, the long. The long way, the hard knock way.I don't even know if it's the hard knock way, because you learned a lot along that way, but it is your own knowing, your own into intuition, and then your own other things that you bring into that space that you realize, okay, I've been convinced that this is the lane.So when we talk about clearing fear, doubt, and resistance, because those are honestly the three things that stop us from pursuing some of the Things that are in alignment. How do we do that?

Jason Winters00:34:25

So similar to what we just talked about, we do need to understand what it is like, on a more specific level. We can generally work on fear, like with tapping, we can generally allow our body to process these general emotions.But I think that being that we're the product, right. We need to understand on some level where this stuff started from. Like, who informed me?And the reason is because trauma is the thing that holds us back in our business. So it causes this fear response.So we're doubting ourselves, we're having fear, and then we're resisting because it's not safe to move in those directions. So it's literally you're pushing away. Whether it's physically pushing or just like energetically, you're still doing the same thing.It's like, no, like, I cannot be in that space. And when we have trauma from a young age, we all have enters the body through the senses.And so there's an experience that we physically have that keeps us from doing things in our business that causes that fear response.And so I want to be very clear that we're not having to do all of this work before we get started or continue in our business, because that is an important piece that I want to emphasize.I'm not going to say what other people are doing, but I really want to emphasize that when we're building our business, it's very important that we are parallel when it comes to this mindset, energy, emotional work alongside the strategy, the actual building of the business, the moving forward in your business. Because there's. There are things that are more triggered, more or less, depending on who. But I'm. I'm using this term loosely.There's nothing more triggering than building a business.As an entrepreneur, highly sensitive people who are dealing with chronic issues like how triggering, triggering is that, like, I'm sick all the time, how am I going to find time to do a business? And I'm. I can't even get out of bed right. So how triggering is doing this going to be?So you really don't want to be in this space of just constantly doing energy work. And in this, like, there is the duality that's very important where you do, you're building your business and you're doing.So as things come up for you, as you're building your business and things come up for you, you're able to then use your tools in the work to move forward.

NIkita Williams00:37:17

Yeah. And to your point, I think it's so true, Jason, because it's like we have, you can't just do like the mind needs also like other evidence.Like if you are, if you are believing that this, you're like, I'm going to start a business. And you're triggered by this fear of like, oh, I'm gonna be in a flare up, I'm gonna be all these things.It's gonna, it's gonna do all of these things to me.And so if you're operating in that mind, in that fear and you're not also taking like the baby tangible strategy steps, your brain will have no evidence to prove that that's wrong. Like, you have to be like doing something to kind of counteract your fears in the same space.Does that mean that you won't have a flare up because you're moving? No, but you will open an opportunity to be aware of why that might have happened, what may have triggered that.Is it just the one thing you thought that did it?For me personally, the things I've learned about running a business with chronic illness has taught me so much about like what other things actually trigger me that has made running a business harder, has nine times out of ten has nothing to do with the business. It has more to do with what I'm doing, my personal life, my relationships, like everything else.Like, and it just happens to be that when I got to go to work, it might be triggered in that, like it comes more. It manifests itself in a different way in that space. But nine times out of 10, my brain is very much more aware of like, oh, no, no, no.You had that text message that came in from so and so and you ignored it. And you're like, I'm fine, but you're not fine. You are not fine. Like, like these things.And so I think to your point is we can't take out the mindset work or the energy work and keep them over here and just work through them. You have to be in motion to receive that which makes sense because energy is in motion. Yeah, right.And I think this talks to the same point of two, like, you know, some clients have said to me, well, energy won't make me money. Like, energy won't affect how like the strategy is going to work. And I have thoughts on, I have many things I say about that.But how is money attached to some of these feelings of fear, doubt and resistance when we bringing this into our business? Like, why is that also an amplifier of why you might not think or you might think it's just the fear of being visible that's getting in the way.But it also could be the money that you might be thinking is going to be coming your way or not coming your way.

Jason Winters00:39:59

Yeah, I, I understand where people are coming from and, and that it makes so much sense. It really does. Like, if you. You don't just think and then money comes. Right. That's not how it works.But I, I often tell this whenever I'm explaining to people the difference between your energy around making money. Okay. So most of us worked a job and we earned money, and then we become entrepreneurs, and it's a whole different energy of receiving money.So it's a whole different energy because this is. I work this many hours, I'm going to get this many dollars. This is. When am I going to get my first client to. Are they going to continue with me?Right. It's more of your value, your personal value. You're receiving. You're not really earning. Okay.So to prove how differently you function around these energies, when you are in earning energy and you work, you will find people who will spend their paycheck. Two weeks, they haven't even gotten it yet, but they've either put the money here or they're like, they already know what they're gonna buy.You know, I'm gonna get my hair done, I'm gonna get my nails done. I'm gonna, you know, buy this wallet or whatever it is, all these things that I'm already allocating this money for.And so when people get their check, it's kind of gone for that reason because they've been in this a lot more trusting in this money because they believe in this company. It's been proven that the money is gonna come. Right. But when you have to believe in yourself, oh, fear, doubt. Right.It's like, it's a lot less certain. Yeah, right. There's this doubt, this uncertainty when it comes to your business. And so I think that that is energy.It's how you move, how you function. Whereas if someone says, you know what, I'm going to pay you, if you run this business, like, you would just move differently. Right?You're going to move differently. And so we, again, it is looking at, okay, so what is energy around my value?Because that's what you're getting is your value that you believe in yourself, not what other. How other people value you. And so that's another misconception. People like, oh, you have to provide value. Value, value. Yeah.

NIkita Williams00:42:38

But who.

Jason Winters00:42:39

Who sees the value first is you. Like, you are the product, like you are the person. You are the value.And so as you raise your value for yourself and your deserve level and so forth, that's going to naturally and that is. I'm not going to say that that's easy to believe in, Nikita. Like, I don't have a. It's not woo woo at all. I'm not, I'm not about that life.But it is true. True, right?

NIkita Williams00:43:08

It is true. True. I love it. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think, yeah, I think it's that intersection.And I think as entrepreneurs, this is the hardest thing, especially if you are a sensitive empath, highly like connecting with people. You're. You're very much driven by how you give or perceive how you're giving. Like all of those feely things that we have and run a business. I like.Right before this call, Jason, I was talking with another friend who's very similar in the same aspect of things, of that feeling of like when you shift and grow and move while you've been building something. You've been building. Right. It is a challenge to figure out how to like evolve, like evolve into this new thing.And it's a challenge mostly because of fear, doubt and resistance. Right. It's like the fear of, like, I built this thing and I'm worried that now that I built this theme that I don't know if this is going to work.If I change it to this thing. I'm experiencing this myself personally with the podcast. Like, if I change the podcast, if I change my focus, how is this going to feel?This is very different from what it was before. Oh my gosh. Like, there's all these things and for me, the.One of the most grounding things has been helpful is, like you said, acknowledging the truth. Acknowledging to me what's helpful is acknowledging the lies.Because I will bring up some lies all day long about something until it's presented to me in my brain.Either someone's told me that this is a lie, I see evidence that it's a lie, or I am being curious, more than judgmental, to acknowledge, okay, the thing that you're feeling and believing is a lie. Like, that's not true.So what is some steps for you personally in your own journey when it comes to clearing fear, doubt and resistance that has helped you move while you're growing a business and while you're supporting your clients? That's been a practice that's been helpful or more, it could be multiple.But like, what has helped you live in integrity of doing the work that we're talking about right now.

Jason Winters00:45:29

So one of the things Nikita is I started to grow rather quickly at the end of 2024 and I was very excited. But I quickly realized that I needed to slow things down because there was some misalignment.And so the reason I am so adamant about this is because if you build your business out of alignment, then it's going to grow and you're going to not love it. It's going to take something that you absolutely love and you're just, it's going to be a headache.And so you want to make sure that it can serve you. I don't have chronic illness, but I do have constant things that I contend with. Right. I have a young kid, I have family, I have other stuff.And so I want to make sure that this business serves me as much as I serve it. And so anytime I am looking at why I'm making a decision, I'm looking at my values.And because I'm a believer, I have a much higher source that I can tap into. And so I absolutely do that.But in addition to that, I'm checking into what, what informed these beliefs and what happened that kind of informed these beliefs and what I made things to mean. So that's sort of like that truth. I'm trying to think of an example of something recently that, that came up.So like, let's just say growth, business growth in general. That's one of the things like I feel like the phases are you're, you're building, you're growing or you're scaling.And a lot of people listening to this is probably in the building and the growing phase. So you're building something or you're trying to grow the thing that you built. Okay. And so for me it was scaling.I was like, oh no, I can't, I can't scale this. So I had to kind of go back into the building part to restructure some things and then grow that so that now I can scale it the right way.So you realize sometimes when you get into the scaling phase of like, oh, I didn't build this the best way because if I scale this, it's going to be a burden on me. I'm going to be overwhelmed, I'm going to be stressed.And so that part, I hope this is answering your question, that part links to the fear because the reason I built it to, I don't want to say the wrong way, but I built it in a way that wasn't sustainable to scale is because I made fear based decisions in the building phase. So it's not going to scale according To. Right.I didn't consider, like, oh, I'm doing all of this over delivering, but I can't scale over delivering because it's not really. I'm sorry, y'. All.

NIkita Williams00:48:10

I feel. I feel personally attacked, though. I'm not. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Yes.

Jason Winters00:48:18

And so that goes to personal stuff. Like, I mean, I'm just being honest.Like, it's not the stuff that, you know, black men are sitting around talking about is their value and their worth. Like, it took a nose dive. It didn't take a nose dive. I didn't see it. I didn't see how low of self worth there was.And so that makes you do things in your business to get value, but it's fleeting. It's very temporary. It was for me. I'll speak for myself. It was very temporary.It's like, whether it's praise or more clients, it's like, you really reduce that to get a client. Like, but now you're. You're misaligned because they didn't pay, you know, the value that they really got. Because you don't value yourself.That's the only reason you're gonna, like, lower your. Not the only reason, but lower it to the point where you're devaluing yourself. So I would say that it's important to just get to those.Some of those emotional roots. And that does require working with somebody like you or myself, like somebody who can help you to see these blind spots. Right.It's just important emotional side of things. For. For your doubt. Like, fear is something that we are absolutely born with. Right? We have it. Fear in a lot of different ways.

NIkita Williams00:49:36

We need fear. We need that stress. Yes.

Jason Winters00:49:39

Yes.

NIkita Williams00:49:39

We need. We need that. Yeah.

Jason Winters00:49:41

Doubt. We were not born with that. That's why kids are ready to touch the hot stove, because it's instilled.So when we're doubting ourselves, it's always something that someone told us, like, don't touch that or be careful, or don't get too, you know, don't get too big for your britches or whatever these statements are. All of these things. Like, money doesn't grow on trees, so that creates scarcity.All this stuff, the doubt that we have, it always can be traced back to someone or something that you received through your senses. Something you saw, some trauma told you to doubt this thing. And it's not always bad, right? Sometimes it's good to kind of doubt things.Like, I don't know, I'll wait and see. You know, it's Good. But a lot of times it's not just wait and see. It's like, I am not good enough. Right.So the trauma senses, I saw it, I touched it, I, you know, smelled it or something that informed that this is not safe for me. And so that's what I've been doing. Nikita is just looking like, where am I not moving forward if I'm like, in honoring myself?If I'm tired, I'm going to rest. Do you know that rest actually builds trust in you and your business?

NIkita Williams00:50:57

Jason, when I tell you this year has been a lesson in what true rest means, it's different. The thing I. I saw this thing on Tick Tock. I'm. I'm a new Tick Tocker. And I was like, you know, that is so true.I used to think that rest meant I planned out my day where I was going to rest and I was gonna do all of these rusty things. And I realized that was just another mirage of me doing stuff versus me doing, like, actually resting. Right.And I'm learning even within myself that I have to do my rest. I have to do what that might and is supposed to look like. And I judge it. I'm not curious about it.If I sit in the bed, I'm sitting there thinking I got a lot of stuff to do that is more productive in my rest. Like, what sick does that make that's not restful? Like, come on now.Like, so, like, I'm learning even in that connotation, because all of that has been conditioning that all of that has come from, even trauma experiences from what I see with my parent, like, all of these things. And so you. You really have to become, like, this curious being of what do these words and things that we're doing actually mean? And what.What are we doing? Like, what are we doing? What are we not doing? And giving ourselves permission to figure that out versus rushing it versus beating ourselves up.And I think the challenge, and this is. We talk a lot about this on the show, but the challenge between. And you understand this as a father, as.As a son, as all of these things, taking care of a family, to run a business because you got bills to pay and heal because you got to live to pay them bills. So I think the biggest challenge I find many of us have is finding the alignment in those two things. Because they feel like they're polar opposites.Yes. Right. So, yeah.

Jason Winters00:53:04

Yeah.

NIkita Williams00:53:05

So I'm curious, Jason, when you said you experienced growth in 2024, because you said that, it made me think, and I wanted to Go back to that. What did that mean for you when you're like, oh, I'm experiencing growth and this is happening. And wait a minute, I need to slow this down.

Jason Winters00:53:22

Yes.

NIkita Williams00:53:23

What switched. What do you think happened?

Jason Winters00:53:27

More clients were coming in, so I needed to raise my prices. And that's not like. It wasn't, like, from a place of greed. It was because I lowered them so I could get more clients.And so I'm like, oh, that's when I switched out of alignment. Yes, I got more clients, but it was no longer sustainable.So it kind of begs the question, well, if I didn't lower them, would the people have come and, you know, all of these things? So that's how it. That's how the brain works. Right? And so that's where we're kind of like, oh, I noticed this thought that comes up.The truth is, I lowered my prices and more people came in, and now I have the opportunity to raise them. And that's. That's. That's the truth. Right? So these. All the chatter, we're not turning it off. That's what. I don't believe that we should turn it off.We need to acknowledge it. But that's what it looked like.It looked like slowing down so that I can see what I needed to do, like, turning off some things, like, okay, yeah, we're not. We're not. We got enough right now.It's not the monetary goal that I want, but it's a. I'm at capacity as far as the people that I want to serve, so I could have brought more people on, but I was at capacity for where I want to be because I had already aligned, like, my calendar, my days that I'm working all of these things, and now I'm ready to shift and take on more people than I already kind of decided for myself. But why? And that was a fear move. I don't want to turn people away or refer them to other coaches or put them on a wait list.And so that was my response. Like, I need to, you know, and also some people pleasing and some things like that that came in, like, why am I.Why don't I want to put them on a wait list? Because I don't want to make people wait, and I didn't want to. And so it really quickly goes into personal.And as a little boy, like, you're taught to be humble and serve others and give and hold the door. And, you know, so I made that to mean that, like, you always hold the door for people. You always do this like it's my own. What I made it to mean it.What didn't mean that My parents were teaching me to put everybody ahead of me, but that's how I was trained, that you always put people first, people, other people first. You know, people come to your house, you have to serve the socks off of them. And, you know, you just. That's how we were. That's how I was raised.And I'm like, oh, yeah, that does not serve my business. And that's not true that I have to do that.

NIkita Williams00:55:58

I mean that right there. I mean that right there. Right. I mean that right there.I think it's powerful for you to share that in real life because I think we hear a lot about just like, oh, yeah, energetically, and what does this look like? And I feel like we gave everyone good, tangible examples of what this looks like, especially when we say business is personal.Energetics matter, alignment matters. Seeing how these things roll off into our businesses, I think we gave some examples there.So tell us how people can learn more about what you're doing, how they can connect with you. What is your mission, purpose right now with your business that's going on? Because I, you know, I. I love me some Jason, y'. All.I could talk about Jason all day long. I just. Y' all just don't know. But, yeah.

Jason Winters00:56:54

Yeah. So I have two things that I'm working on now, and it is the EFT tapping academy.So I'm teaching coaches, or people are not coaches, but maybe they want to learn how to do this work, how to deepen their own work or how to help other people. So if you're already.This is best for people already kind of coaches or, you know, if you're a therapist or massage therapist or anything like that, and you want to add this to your practice or if it's something that you're interested in doing. And then the business alignment ecosystem, it's kind of similar to the work. I know what you do, Nikita.It's very similar to aligning, you know, your business with your life and making sure that there's alignment. The one slight difference that we offer is, is our platform with it. So it's very similar.When you come into that program, we have freedom types that you work through. So your time freedom, just making sure you're honoring that, your financial freedom, your goals.So what financial freedom looks like to everyone is different. And so we work through that. And then it's your location freedom. So some people want to be able to travel and live in different parts of the world.And so we, we really build your business. We help you to do that around your freedom types. So it's very specific to you.And then we have a platform that helps you to kind of build all of those things as well. So yeah, that's, that's what we're doing. I'm not currently taking any one on ones right now.I have one spot that may be opening up in mid June or something, but I'm not sure if they're going to resign. But yeah, that's, that's how in, in those programs there's coaching by me and, and my business partner. We offer coaching there. It's.It's an amazing program. I think so.

NIkita Williams00:58:35

I mean it really is. I think, you know, when I first started tapping for a lot of people, EFT is new. Don't know what it is, don't understand what it is.We'll have a link to some of you. You have some YouTube channels, YouTube videos on like what it is, how it works.But it was one of the most powerful things that I incorporated and just being able to name the feeling, where it was in my body, how it felt and what it, what it might look like, and give myself permission to feel the feeling. Because sometimes we are just in it and we're judging it and we can't even do anything. When you're in judgment zone, you just literally can't.You just can't go anywhere other than nowhere.And so it really has been a huge part of my journey for chronic illness, for relationships, all of those things, like just being able to be really familiar with all of those things. And it's helped a lot in a lot of different ways.And thanks to you and a couple other coaches that have really helped in that space, it's a powerful thing.So if you guys haven't ever done it and you don't know what we're talking about, or if you have and you've been seeing it and you want to add it as a modality in your, in your coaching business, I highly recommend it.And if you want it from someone who knows what they're talking about and has the understanding and knows the nuance and capacity without the additional. There is woo when it comes to this topic. Some way to woo. It's just woo. And then a whole nother planet.This is like seriously dialed in, grounded, scientific. And I love that that's the angle that you come and you, you keep that in because it's helpful.

Jason Winters01:00:26

Yeah, yeah. And if they use your affiliate link, they can get A seven day free trial. So come in, check it out, see if you like it.

NIkita Williams01:00:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much, Jason, for coming on and being one of the first men on the show.

Jason Winters01:00:40

I am.

NIkita Williams01:00:41

So you might just be the only one between you and my husband. I just, you know, talk about fear. That's a fear, having a man come up on this show other than someone I intimate.Like, I feel like I really know you, Jason. So that's why it felt very. I could do this, do this, Nikita. So I'm really thankful for you.

Jason Winters01:00:59

No, I appreciate that there's a lot of spaces that are kept for women and I appreciate that it's important that there's a safe space for women to be in.And that's why I really appreciate the women who work with me because I know that they're bringing a lot of women bring some things that it takes a lot. They're ready to heal through some things, and working with a man actually allows them to do that.And I just honor them because I don't know what, you know, I don't know what that's, you know, what that's like or anything, but it's, it's, it's an amazing, it's an amazing work. So thank you for all that you do.

NIkita Williams01:01:39

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. I received that. Thank you, Jason.

Jason Winters01:01:42

Yes, absolutely.

NIkita Williams01:01:44

All right, you guys, we'll see you in the next one. That's a wrap for this episode of Business with Chronic Illness.If you you would like to start and grow an online business with me, head to the show Notes to click a link to book a sales call and learn how to make money with chronic illness.You can also check out our website@ww.CraftedToThrive.com for this episode's show notes and join our email list to get exclusive content where I coach you on how to chronically grow a profitable business while living with chronic illness. Until next time, remember, yes, you are crafted to thrive.